Was the Souls series timed well enough to get a gamergate boost?

This is something I’ve had sorta rattling around in my head and I thought I’d ask folks to get some more perspective on the issue.

(I wanna preface this and say that I don’t wanna let my prejduice of the souls series paint this discussion topic in a negative way, but it’s something I was curious about)

I saw a video that pointed out how 2009ish was the time when maybe alot of pre-gamergate forces were looking to gatekeep video games from the FAKE GIRL GAMERS that only play stuff like candy crush or like Hello Kitty games.

And Demon Souls (2009) was kidna in a good spot to be the posterchild of “real” games that “real” gamers play. That alot of the early git gud marketing that boosted the souls series to the precipice it sits on today was in part due to chuds trying to weed out fems and other non masculine people from the hobby.

Curious if anyone else has thoughts on this theory.

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There’s probably something there. I remember hearing some people at like… giant bomb and Waypoint try to work on the reclaimation of those games away from the get good people, specifically the ones who get super mad at those who summon others for help.

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Two disclosures:

  • I have the opposite bias upfront; I’m quite fond of the games (though wary of their capacity to attract chuds–and notably, annoyed that the Gitgudders have arrived in Monster Hunter as of World). I’m also friends with tons of people who like the games and are cool.
  • I quite simply do not “participate in video game communities.” I rarely talk to people on the basis of liking the same thing, almost never join community Discords, I’ve never been a regular of a major streamer. I do interact with stuff sometimes, but it’s generally quite loose. I’ll likely have a very sheltered perspective on this one as a result.

I have no thoughts about Demon’s Souls, other than that it was a well-reviewing game nobody liked at the time; Dark Souls 1 definitely got a boost from True Gamerdom Posing. It became the conduit that made Gitgudism into a central tenet for chuds. I think it’s essentially impossible to argue otherwise (in good faith, anyway).

However, now the apologia.

The games themselves are utterly uninterested in being that. Consequently, they’ve been less and less appealing to the chuds over the years. There’ll always be holdouts telling you that Spirit Ashes are for scrubs or whatever, but there’ll also always be people telling you that throwing them in a fighting game is cheating or w/e. I refuse to give mental screentime to bad opinion havers.

This is extra funny considering that the games are getting “harder” with every release. The timings get stricter, the moves get more elaborate, etc.[1] Dark Souls 1 is actually not a particularly difficult game anymore for anybody who’s played more than a game or two in the genre (and especially if you accept that dying is not failing). It was just very new and genre-defining at the time.

I feel like already around the time of Dark Souls 2, the Gitgudders’ grip loosened considerably. It probably helps that Dark Souls 2 is a particularly weird entry in the series. I think at this point the conversation is kept alive out of inertia? Souls gets brought up constantly in various contexts, so you constantly get the remaining invested chuds nipping at any involved heels.

Notably, none (or few?) of the major Souls streamers/videors around (lobosjr, squilla, vaati, iron pineapple, etc) are chuddy gamer bros. Not exactly the best way to gauge a “community”, given those aren’t really a thing. But you know. At least circumstancial.

Ultimately, I think the Gamergate part of it all would have happened with or without Dark Souls. It just happened to be an incredibly influential game coming out at a time when those people were looking for something to latch onto. Difficulty-based elitism has always been a thing, and will forever be. And once those lines were drawn, any mention of Souls will activate them like sleeper cells to rehash 10+ year old arguments.

But, as is the case most of the time, the world has moved on without them. And the sum total of the legacy of the Souls games is a positive one in my opinion, because people have made it a positive one. Sure, it might occasionally be annoying to do corpse runs or have stamina bars in an indie game that did not need them, but there’s so much love, creativity, and art they inspired, and I’d much rather focus on that.


  1. And it kinda sucks? That’s not the fun part about the games. Like, it’s not a dealbreaker to me, but they clearly need to refocus a bit, they can’t just keep doing powercreep like that lmao. ↩︎

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Maybe? I don’t think I know enough about Souls to have a good reading on this. Although one thing is that Gamergate and people who associated themselves as Gamergaters during the time Gamergate was happening didn’t actually care about video games and weren’t talking about video games. It was entirety a community movement of harassment of women and minorities and making up excuses for why women and minorities deserve harassment. Even the poster child made-up anime girl I refuse to name that 4chan came up with was generally not associated with any particular video games, it was all about what internet nazis consider to be a woman who behaves within the tolerable lines of behavior they set that they can also jack off to.

There was definitely an element of git gud mythologizing around the Souls series in the early days, but as someone who never interacted with this franchise I can’t really speculate as to how much of an effect that had on sales and popularity. Even to this day there’s a visible loud toxic subset of fans who lose their minds over the sanctity of Souls games, just look at any time anyone mentions difficulties or accessibility options. But I personally think there’s a notable distinction between a general toxic git gud gamerbro and the harassment, abuse and doxxing that Gamergaters were specifically doing and what current successors like the Steam curator who flags games that a consultant worked on do.

I generally associate culture war horny game shit with GG more than hardcore difficult games, a significant part of GG was also pushback against Sarkeesian’s baby feminist theory 101 videos, and the butt game from this summer definitely seemed to strike that audience.

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man thank you for saying a lot of what I wanted to say much more eloquently than I would have been able to. In Case It Was Not Utterly Obvious, I’m pretty invested in the Souls series (it means a lot to me, it’s had a huge impact on me, I think it has made me a better person, etc). I know it’s not too popular #onhere - which is fine, to be clear, it just takes the wind out of my sails a bit sometimes when people start picking on it because it’s so meaningful to me. :') I’m not very good at articulating myself when it comes to why I love things, especially when I get emotional about it, so this kind of measured response is often beyond me.

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This a a really great response. At least more recently ive been out of the loop on major gaming discourse, but pre 2022 souls stuff i remember pretty clearly and the gitguders always had a hint of GG in their takes

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even if otherwise theyd have nothing to do with it. I remember Dia Lacina got heat for using the auto battle mode in the recent nier remake. I hard a hard time telling one of my friends he was being unnecessarily toxic about it.

It’s good to hear from someone a bit more familiar with the serie’s take on this.

Yea, i have no delusions about this. The chuds were gonna chud regardless if miyazaki was cooking or not. If it wasnt dark souls if couldve been KOF13. But i was interested in that

My qpologies, i didnt intend to attack the series, but just consider it’s place in a historical series of events. I know a talk alot of crap about the series, but i think they’re very stellar action RPGs and have the perfect balance between action and RPG build construction, im just not fully a fan of the action part.

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hey don’t worry about it! you’re totally entitled to your opinion and I didn’t think you were shitting on the series at all. :) my Dark Souls Emotions are my own to deal with and not your responsibility!

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This more or less sums up how I feel about it.

One thing I want to touch upon (not directly re: this post but it’s a good jumping off point) is that a lot of the marketing of the series was tied up in difficulty. Dark Souls’s PC edition was called the Prepare to Die edition. A ton of talk about poison swamps, Miyazaki talking about all the various ways you can die in the game and his masochism thing, that sort of thing. It was definitely in the air around Demon’s Souls (the original and by far the worst poison swamp imo) but it really got more intentionally picked up around Dark Souls. So it’s no wonder folks cottoned to that, haha. (And admittedly it’s a really distinctive thing compared to a lot of its contemporaries - a game that’s happy to lose you some progress if you fall off one ledge was decidedly a choice by comparison to a lot of other things released in that timeframe!)

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